In this week’s episode, Geoff is talking to Tara Howell who was a Winner in the 2018 Tasmanian Young Achiever Awards.
Tara Howell founded Blue Derby Pods Ride which offers soft-adventure mountain biking experiences in Derby, Tasmania. Her guests indulge in Tasmanian food and wine, stay in unique, architecturally designed accommodation pods and explore the world famous Blue Derby Mountain Bike Trails. Blue Derby Pods Ride is the first luxury adventure mountain biking experience in Australia, and has carved out a completely new niche in a normally extreme adventure sport. Blue Derby Pods Ride s in its fourth year of operation, with ten employees.
In this episode:
- We get to hear how passionate Tara is about creating a business built on sustainability, and respecting the natural environment of Derby.
- And how does a tourism company pivot during COVID?
Interested in a Blue Derby Pods Ride experience? Find out more here
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Welcome to the Inspirational Australians podcast, where we chat to people, making a difference in their communities and in the lives of others. And here is your host for today, Geoff Griffin.
I’m really looking forward to chatting with Tara Howell today, who is the founder of Blue Derby Pods Ride and the winner of the 2018 Spirit of Tasmania Tourism and Hospitality Award, the Tasmanian Young Achiever Awards. The first fun fact, Young Achiever Awards are run by Awards Australia in each state and territory. We are a family owned business with an amazing team of dedicated people to provide further opportunities for those that are making a difference in the community. We run the Inspirational. Australians podcast as just another way to promote the terrific stories of extraordinary Australians and today’s podcast is an inspiring story that showcases initiative, resilience and perseverance to achieve your goals. I’m really fascinated to learn more so without further ado, welcome to the podcast, Tara.
Thanks for having me, Geoff. It’s lovely to be here.
We were just talking off air about the actual benefits of what you do and it’s not just a business. So really a connection to, uh, to the environments to appreciate what we have. How did, uh, the idea of Blue Derby Pods Ride start?
Well, look, it feels like a lifetime ago now, but, um, uh, like you mentioned, it was started in nature. Um, I worked as a bushwalking guide here in Tasmania on a number of different trails that Overland track and on the East coast at Bay of fires. And I was fortunate enough to guide, um, guests on those experiences. And I absolutely love hosting people and like the idea of a luxury mountain biking experience came to my mind when I was doing that because although I was bushwalking for a job, my free time, I was mountain biking. I thought there must be, there must be a market for something like this. And, uh, my husband and I, Steve did a lot of research, did some traveling around the world to check on mountain biking markets,
Good excuse to go traveling around the world, or I better do some research about this.
It’s true. It’s true, wonderful trips to, you know, places like Canada and New Zealand and things like that, but really helpful because their mountain biking markets are a lot more progressive than Australia. Out of all that we came up with Blue Derby Pods Ride. So, um, it’s yeah, it started with nature and I love for the outdoors here in Tasmania and the love for mountain biking and wanting to do something in the state that I absolutely love.
Were there any hurdles when you’re trying to get Blue Derby Pods Ride off the ground?
Look, heaps of hurdles when I was 23, I think 23, I quit, I suppose my corporate roles to start pushing this business. And it was till I was 26 when we actually launched the business. Um, and in those years of preparation, you know, there was all the standard, how standard and vetted comrades hurdles, like, you know, getting a development app, you know, providing the funding and all that kind of stuff. Um, but I suppose one that I found really hard and was, I suppose it is right for this podcast is, um, being young because, you know, we’re a fresh face. I still am relatively fresh faced about, um, you know, early 20 year olds and, um, proposing quite a considerable development in, um, national park and reserve here in Tasmania. And people really had to, you know, take us seriously. And so, uh, definitely was, um, a hurdle and the way we, the way we ensured that we got over that hurdle was, you know, giving confidence in other ways and not letting age restrict what we did or said. And yeah, it definitely came up a couple of times. So, which is funny, looking back upon,
It’s sad though, isn’t it, sometimes we don’t value the opinions or just young people in general because they’re young. What will they know? How many people, just as a matter of interest, how many people said, Oh, you’ll never get that off the ground. That will never work.
Lots. You know, and, you know, from a really broad range of, um, areas of expertise, you know, I remember one of our early meetings when we went to pitch this to a certain even government body, and we were literally sat down and said, you should change your idea. This isn’t going to work pods in particular. Aren’t a good idea. And we I’m in that meeting and we, um, wait, which we had by the way, come out of our, um, jobs that we were doing. So at time we change into site, more professional clothes outside of this office to go into a space this really silly, like if you could see the behind the scenes of it, we just felt so silly and then had to go back out to our other jobs. But anyway, um, they said, you know, Pods is not a good idea. You should just look into some tents or something like that. And we, I remember sitting down and saying, look, I know that’s what you think, but that’s one of our key architectural point of differences. If we’re just doing tents, we’re just like everyone else. And it was a really like confirmed conversation that it was like, thank you for your opinion, but that’s not what we’re doing. Yeah. Yeah. So lots of interesting ones like that,
Uh, it’s really important to listen to what people say, but at the same time, uh, stick to your guns, if you really have a passion and believe in it, so well done to you, how many pods do you actually have and how many guests can you cater for at any one time?
Yeah, so we’ve got four pods and so they’re twin shares. So then we set up as King or as, um, twin, and then the pods are connected to a larger hub building, we call it. So that’s where we have all your dining area, your lounge area, um, little like library nook and the kitchen bathrooms box store and things like that. And they’re all connected with an elevated boardwalk. Um, yeah, so our guests size is eight. So it’s that intimate group experience.
Who does the cooking?
Our staff do. Yes. So there’s two experienced leaders per trip, and they are incredibly talented individuals who are not only at wonderful mountain biking guides. They also are. Excellent chefs.
Beautiful. It sounds good. So, uh, four groups of two at any one, two at any one time, which is cool. Do you very often have all four pods filled or eight guests?
Yeah. Yeah. That’s really common for us. And in different ways, like sometimes we have group bookings, so maybe for couples or a group of friends, um, or alternatively, we have people who don’t know each other. So there’s just a couple of who’s booked from somewhere in Australia and another couple from somewhere else in Australia. And for some reason that all the groups always just work out beautifully. They have common interests and, um, by the end of the three or four days, everyone’s friends. And, um, you know, when you go through, uh, uh, experience like three or four days of mountain biking together, you have a special connection. Yeah.
Yeah. I imagine it would be, um, really bring people together and you develop lifelong friends
Yeah you do, absolutely!
And you would have so many connections and friends, people that have, um, you’ve experienced the joy of, you know, the trekking and the packages that you provide.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And, um, I feel like we do become friends with all of our guests because I think it takes a certain type of person who wants to go on a mountain biking experience. You know, they’re wanting to have a holiday that’s outdoors and adventuring and experiencing the Tasmanian wilderness. And so we always already have this common bond. So you, you become friends with them all yeah.
Other multitude of different biking trails, depending on someone’s level of fitness or experience.
Yeah, absolutely. We’re so fortunate. So where we’re located, our accommodation or our pods are situated in the middle, the forest of the Blue Derby mountain biking network. And so for your listeners, um, the Blue Debby mountain biking trails, uh, situated in Northeast Tasmania and there are a hundred plus kilometers of purpose-built mountain biking trail. And since we’ve been operating because we started our development the same time they were being developed, um, they’ve now been, uh, acclaimed as, um, some of the best mountain biking trails in the world. Rightly so, because they are incredible, I’m obviously biased, but they are incredible. And, and they’ve been designed, so they have a real range of abilities, um, that can be used or can be ridden upon. So we have green trails, which are the easiest trails, all the way to double black, which are the hardest. And our staff, what they do with, uh, groups is they will assess that obviously the group’s ability and, you know, we get an idea when maybe booking with us and tailor the three days of riding to the guest and the group’s ability. So you end up, um, you know, covering a lot of trail and also, um, a ride range of trail.
Yeah. That’s pretty technical. Yeah. Looking at everybody’s experience and abilities and working out what trials and all that type of stuff. It’s pretty cool.
It is technical. And it’s, you know, we, we offer three or four day packages, but they’re, they’re constantly every time because every group has different ability and every group has different needs. So we have to tailor the packages and the trails that you ride towards the guests, obviously. So there’s a little bit of thinking each time. Yep.
Oh, very cool. And I believe, uh, Derby hosted a round of the Enduro World Series in to 2017, was that a catalyst or did that help your businesses?
Yeah, absolutely. Having the Enduro World series in Australia, which was the first time and then in Derby Tasmania. So the first time and obviously Tasmania as well was absolutely amazing for mountain biking in general for Australia. Um, and so it was definitely a catalyst for us. We actually launched our business for that event. And so we, you know, as the elders had to work very hard to get everything up and going, and we finished the build, um, and I think we had one or two days to set everything up, like clean it all up and get everything in. And then we had guests that next day. So it was really tight. Um, and, but it was worth it because major amazing publicity, not only for the destination, but also for us. So it was worth the hard work.
Yeah. It was nothing like a tight deadline to work to. That’s awesome. I appreciate there are plenty of walking tracks as well. You know, people can wind down from their biking or before they start or whatever it is in between to, um, just, you know, go for lovely walk.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, Debbie has really evolved as a township. Uh, it’s got an amazing history, which I won’t go into today, but, um, the mountain biking trails is where it’s at, at the moment and, you know, the mountain biking trails themselves, they actually can be walked on, obviously at your own risk because it’s mountain bike is on it, but there are some that, you know, particular locals in the area, um, walk on regularly. And there are also other trails in the district as well and other non-riding activities, which mean there are lots of things you can do that. Aren’t just, isn’t just mountain biking. Yeah.
Well, tell us a few of the attractions of Derby people. We want everyone to come and visit you and take one of your packages, but I’m sure there are things that they can see and do in Derby as well. I know it’s only small town.
It’s a tiny town, you know, it’s a one street town, well, one main street and a couple little lines off the side and this little Valley, and it’s got all these little pockets of interesting houses and, um, but the Derby township has so many different little attractions. Obviously there’s the mountain biking, which is the main one, gorgeous little, um, amount of, uh, cafes, I suppose, in the area. But then other little things like we have a lake behind the township and on that, like you can do things like kayak and fish and I’m like fly fishing and things like that. It’s also got a really amazing floating sauna on that lake. So you can have a sauna after you’re riding or just have a stoner in general. Um, it’s also known for its minerals in the, in the area. So people can go panning for sapphires. I’ve got, um, a number of friends who have panned and collected their sapphires for their partners, uh, rings and things like that in the area. So there’s a real eclectic thing, like a range of things you can do. And, um, it’s, it’s really just a wonderful little town. Yeah,
It sounds amazing. And now our listeners, wont to be able to see of course, but there is a beautiful view out of your window. They’re very green. Beautiful. I mean, I’m very jealous about where you are. It must be…
I’m not actually in Derby, I’m actually at my home, but thank you!
How far is home from Derby?
Our home is one hour from Derby. So we’re in between Launceston and Derby, which was, yeah.
Okay. Still beautiful. Very, very nice. And I’m sure Derby is just as beautiful. It is. Yeah. So Tara, tell me, how did COVID-19 affect you and the business?
Look, um, COVID, as everyone’s obviously had an in the tourism industry had a massive impact on us. So overnight we, um, had to, we lost all our bookings for the season and, you know, with huge amount of uncertainty for the future of tourism and what was going to happen. So, um, that was massive for us. And I don’t think anyone can plan for anything like this. And I’m sure it’s on everyone’s risk plans now, like a world pandemic, but private, not anymore. Um, so that’s a massive impact for us. And, um, so we really had to stop thinking differently because 90% of our clientele are from mainland Australia and borders obviously shut down for here in Tasmania and then 5% international and 5% Tasmanian. And we, we could not rely or take the risk of relying on 5% of our past clientele for business. So we actually, um, we rejigged our offering and made a Tasmanian only offering, um, which we felt the market would respond to, which has been really successful. And, um, now we’re coming out of COVID a little bit. Um, we’re seeing a lot stronger bookings with mainland Australia, um, people coming and wanting a bit of the Tasmanian fresh air and adventuring and things like that. So it feels like we’re coming out of it now, which is wonderful, but a huge effect to begin with.
Yeah. That’s so tragic for you, but for so many as well, and I’m sure that there are 90% of your business is coming from, uh, other parts of Australia, all I’m sure. Going by the spirit of Tasmania. No doubt. So we love spirit of Tasmania.
Totally, totally. Yes. As do I.
Yeah, yeah, no, it is. Um, it has been tragic, but it sounds like you’ve really made headway into re rejigging your business so that locals have a package that they can take up, which is cool.
Yeah. I think you had to, yeah. I mean, if we, everyone had to just talk to offline about that word pivot, but everyone had to pivot didn’t they? And, um, I’m really, I’m really glad we did. I was really nervous about it to begin with, but I’m really glad we did. Yeah,
Well, I’m sure many of our listeners are fascinated by the mountain biking experience idea. Can you tell us about the mountain biking? How many, you know, you can take eight people, but how many bikes do you have specifically? How far do you ride each day and how strenuous is it? I know you said they’re varying levels of strenuousness I guess that you have, but how draining was canopy.
Yeah, yeah, no, it’s a good question. And we get asked this a lot. Um, so, uh, we, all, our guests generally are mountain bikers and we have a fleet of box. So our guests all come the trip as mountain bikers. Um, but then we obviously have to tailor, like I said earlier, the trip to that group and the individuals within that group. So we have two experienced leaders. Um, who’s joined that group and generally the group split into two different levels of ability. So beginner to intermediate, which we’ll tackle the easier trails and intermediate to advanced. And, um, what happens is the way we’ve designed our itineraries is those groups then regroup for things like morning tea, lunch, afternoon tea, they can share their writing stories and talk about what they’d been doing. Um, and it also means that someone who is in that intermediate bracket can, um, you know, join the beginner ride and get their confidence up and then join a hot a variety if, if they want to. Um, so it, it has strenuous really depends on the individual, you know, um, so a beginner we’ll find, you know, those green and light blue and blue trails quite strenuous, and an advanced rider will find those double black runs certain risks. And so it kind of depends on the individual. And even to the point where a guest asks us, you know, a potential guests, how much do you ride every day? And you can actually not ride if you want to, and you can just join us and chill out, or you can ride five kilometers. And then on the flip side, you can ride 50 kilometers in a day. So we are, and we have to be because of the way mountain biking works and the different abilities in the group. And in every single guest we’ve had all the guest experiences and all the, um, past trips that dynamic has always worked beautifully. So it, um, it’s a really broad question. I can’t answer it specifically. Hopefully that gives you an idea.
Yeah, absolutely. I wonder how many people come, uh, who are just there to be with their partners. They don’t want to ride at all. You know, they’re just there to spare on and give encouragement to their partner.
Well, look, it’s not uncommon. It’s definitely not our, obviously our core business, but it’s really not uncommon. And we have, um, non-rider discount that we apply for someone who just wants to literally chill out at the pods. They want to practice some yoga. We can get the local yoga teacher to come and join and do some yoga classes. They might go to the sauna and they enjoy all the beautiful food and wine. And, uh, it honestly, it’s a great three or four days if you’re just doing a non-rider as well. So, um, I don’t have the percentage stat for you, but it’s definitely not uncommon.
Yeah, that’s cool. Well, there’s no doubt that there’ll be some people like me that are just as interested in the food and wine and the unique part accommodation. Can you tell us about the actual pods in them? What do you offer there and then the food, the wine, of course. Uh, what does that involve the different meal every, every time?
Yeah, look, obviously that’s a huge part of our experience. Um, the pods let’s start with them, uh, because they have been such a, you know, like I said earlier, something that we wanted to do from the start to be really unique and the reason one of them to be so unique and just for the listeners, you know, um, there are these curved, gorgeous structures with beautiful, simple lighting and this large, big bed and a window that opens out to the wilderness and they sit really densely in the forest. Um, is we want to our guests to lie back at night and think, wow, this is a really, this is not normal. This, this isn’t four walls. This isn’t a square, this is something different. And as part of that, um, experience, maybe they’ll start thinking like, wow, like we could be doing things differently in our life because you lie back at night, you take in a stars and suddenly you have time to think and, um, you have time to reflect a new life and that’s what a different space can do. Um, so it, it leads into our positioning line, which is to experience the flow. We want our guests to experience flow on the bike. You know, that moment where you’re like, forget everything. And you’re just thinking, wow, this is amazing. But also flow, um, you know, at pods in the pods or in our food and our wine and, and things like that. So that’s the pods and the food and the wine. Gosh, it’s, it’s beautiful. Obviously it’s all Tasmanian focused. Um, it’s, it’s different every night or every, every element of what you have. Um, all the wines are paired to the meals you’re having. And look, we get bloody good feedback for our food or wine. I think that you can’t go wrong with Tasmanian food and wine
Tara, it sounds so amazing. Can people book are longer than the normal three or four package days? You mentioned that people can come and chill out and people say, look, why don’t I take the four day package, but I want to stay on for an extra two days just to really chill out and enjoy. Yeah,
Look, we keep to what we’re good at. And that is three or four day experiences on the odd occasion. If we’ve had a gap within our bookings, we have had guests stay a little bit longer, but it’s not common. Yeah. Yeah. Stick to what you’re good at.
Yeah, absolutely. It sounds really amazing in the evenings do you provide any entertainment? Like you sit there and sing or play the ukulele for your guests, or something?
It’s not part of the itinerary. Every one of our staff have a unique little skill and this is not purpose, but everyone brings something, you know, one might have an absolute passion for bids. And the other might have, is really in depth knowledge around the history of the area. And other might be a ukulele player. We do have a guitar on site, a dress up box for that matter. So often entertainment, you know, it happens as part of the experience, but it’s definitely not set in stone.
It sounds like so much fun. A really unique experience for all our listeners. Get anybody that, you know, that would be interested in this, get them onto, it sounds convinced you yet.
Did I convince you yet Geoff?
Well, um, I’m, I’m very environmentally focused. So green suits me.
Absolutely. And I should, I haven’t even mentioned that about the pods or anything like that, but we got completely off grid and it’s a totally, you know, sustainable experience. We work so hard with our suppliers to have minimal packaging. And, um, and so all our waste goes to, uh, organic chook farm or recycled or anything like that. So those things we don’t actually hop on about luck a lot, but it’s, it is it’s [inaudible] so, yeah. Yeah.
Well, Annette would love you. She’s very, very, very recyclable focus and sustainability focused. So she’ll certainly appreciate as well. Everybody appreciate what you’re saying. Well, let’s just turn on a side, the Tasmanian Young Achiever Award. So now I’ve been for the current program and going back a few years to winning your award in 2018, what did being nominated and then of course winning your award mean for you at the time. And did it help your business?
Um, look, um, I was really, um, I mean, it’s just, it’s any being nominated for any award is such, uh, you know, it’s, it’s so wonderful and you feel really humbled and really, you know, almost, um, in disbelief because you’re working so hard on your business as everyone does, all your community project or whatever you’re doing, and look getting an award makes you look up and reflect and go, wow, I must be doing something that’s special here. So it definitely gave me that moment when I was nominated. And I really didn’t think I was going to win actually, um, in the category, like I’m sure in all the awards, um, the finalists were exceptional. And so I was super surprised when they said my name and I felt completely unprepared to give a speech at the night. I remember feeling like walking up, going, what am I going to say? I should thank my husband. Um, and so I felt, yeah, I felt totally, really lucky and for our business, I mean, absolutely. You know, there are definitely, uh, some clientele and people who look for your awards and it gives that external recognition that you’re doing something amazing. So I have no doubt. It’s definitely been helpful for our business too. Yeah.
Well, and I remember your thanks spirit of Tasmania and access for the prior sponsor. So that was good. Yeah.
Uh, good. Thank goodness. I did that in
No, that’s a great way to acknowledge someone who’s doing something special and I’m pleased to acknowledge, uh, Steve as well. That was very important for your ongoing marriage. Sustainability you’ll have done that. That was good. Tara, what’s something that we might not know about you?
Um, well, you might not know about me. Gosh, well look, I mean, I mentioned it before. I, obviously our business is completely off grid, but I live in a tiny home and that’s completely off grid as well. Um, so that’s something that I don’t usually advertise a lot, but it’s a lot of fun, especially with a nearly one-year-old.
Yeah. That’d be interesting for your business too.
You love those challenges. So what’s, um, what’s next for Tara Howel?
That’s a good question. Um, well I feel lots of different little things that we’re working on always and always ways to improve and, um, you know, keep our business, uh, up to date I suppose, but COVID definitely has changed our thinking a lot, you know, we’ve, I think we always have had long term plans and I’ve always been going this way. I want to be at certain point, but at the moment I feel like we’re changing everything. Cause we’re just trying to kind of come down from COVID. Um, but definitely progressing Derby Pods Ride and continually improving our pods ride. And, um, from there we’ll, we’ll see how it goes. Yeah.
Yeah. Do you have any, starting a business is really difficult if anybody thinks differently, try in your, so no, it’s tough. Gives you a lot of stress and worry and a lot of hours trying to not only get the business started, but maintain that, trying to be ahead of the game, new things all the time to keep people interested in wanting to come and visit you and be a part of your experience. Do you have any words of wisdom for our listeners in terms of keep oing, having a go?
Uh, definitely always. Um, you’re right. Those starting businesses is really hard, but it’s very rewarding. We shouldn’t forget that there are a lot of rewards and there are a lot of benefits of running your own business. Um, you know, not just referring to financial benefits, obviously it’s, you know, that lifestyle and, you know, be able to do what you want to do and things like that. Um, I, I, I think, I always think of two things, when you think of words of wisdom, one definitely has to be around values. Um, I think, uh, you, it’s really important to understand what your personal values are and really hone in on those as soon as you can. Um, because once you understand what you stand for, you can really start tailoring your business and your life around that. And that’s when a lot more, um, enjoyment, I think comes, you know, if you’re really passionate about what you do, it’s, it’s so much easier and you become passionate when you do things that are aligned with your personal values. So that’s, that’s something I think, um, is really wonderful, um, and a helpful thing to keep in mind and the other piece of advice or a quote that I always come back to and I have this on my next to my desk and this is more for – it’s for parents. So I suppose that’s why I always, I think of it. Um, but it’s a quote from Brene Brown and I believe she’s quoting someone else, but the quote is, um, the greatest burden a child can bear is that of an unlived parent. And it’s so important. You know, there are so many things and ideas, I’m sure people have out there that are restricted because of them ha having, um, other things going on or societal pressures saying they shouldn’t be doing things. And that quote always motivates me to keep going and doing things that you really want to do in your life. Yeah.
I think there’s a constant for all the people or nearly all people, at least to a successful, and that is have a go, take the plunge of course through, but then just get in there and give it a shot.
Yeah. The worst is actually, it not working. And that is not the end of the world, you know,
From COVID bounce back, you know, there are things that go wrong and we think that this is the end, but there is nothing worse than not experiencing the challenge or the desire to do something. And then not always wondering whether you could have, should have, or maybe all power to you and to anybody, particularly young people. I love people having a shot at something, particularly if you can connect it to something of value, I loved what you say on your website. Our vision inspires us. Our purpose drives us. Our values are how we behave more about these as part of your experience for that. I love that little hook there at the end, lovely guiding lights. I love that. And I just found that so inspirational and just haven’t before today, reading that and thinking, huh, just really want to talk to even more now and seeing what you do. I love that.
And it’s, it’s so true that vision, purpose and values are everything for us. You know, um, the vision is to create a sustainable world and we’ve talked about, you know, on the edges of the environment or points for our business and that’s our life as well. And those values that you read on our website, our guests actually get introduced to those, um, as part of our experience and it’s becomes, you know, if we, if they can behave like that, they’re going to have a wonderful experience too, or even more wonderful. And it all becomes part of the whole Derby Pods Ride experience. Yeah.
Fantastic. How can our listeners connect with you or find out more about the Blue Derby Pods Ride experience?
Yeah, so Blue Derby Pods Ride, obviously a website, um, and then we’re on social. So Instagram and Facebook, um, maybe you could add our handles and things like that to your show notes. Um, but also me personally, um, I’m on Facebook and Instagram as well, and I’m also quite active on LinkedIn. So welcome to connect.
LinkedIn is always a good way. Isn’t it? To connect with people. Yeah, well, I’ll highly recommend that people get on board and that’s the spirit of Tasmania of ourse. Nice sort of connect, uh, and, and come and see you and have a great time and enjoy the experience of connecting with nature and mountain biking in one of the most beautiful areas of the world for mountain biking. So congratulations to you for winning your award for all that you do for your beautiful little house, your baby and your husband, and collectively all you do in the business and how you inspire people as well. It’s been really wonderful talking to you, Tara. I hope our listeners have enjoyed it. I hope you’ve enjoyed it too.
I have, thank you so much. And I, you know, thank you for all of what you guys do as well. It’s wonderful organization and such important awards. So yeah. Thank you.
Thanks so much Tyro. We enjoy coming out of the pandemic, uh, and what it’s done to your business. And I hope things flourish moving forward.
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