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Catalysing Consent Conversations, One Revolution



In this week’s episode, Josh chats with Angelique Wan, Winner of the Spirit Super Create Change Award in the 2022 NSW/ACT 7NEWS Young Achiever Awards and she was the Young Achiever of the Year 2022 of NSW/ACT 7NEWS Young Achiever Awards.

Angelique Wan – CEO of Consent Labs, 24 of Surry Hills co-founded a non-profit that revolutionizes the discussion around sexual consent. From 2016 to 2018, Angelique and her co-founder focused on developing an evidence-based program, consulted and built relationships with experts, and conducted focus group discussions for market research. In 2021, she left her corporate job to work full-time for Consent Labs. They have since reached 10,000 students and parents across Australia. This year, Consent Labs is spearheading a sector wide campaign – Charity Cringle – aiming to divert just 1% of the unused Christmas Cringle spend to charities.

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[00:00:58] Josh

Hello and welcome to the inspirational australian’s podcast for your weekly dose of inspiration. So you’re with me. Josh Griffin, from awards, Australia,  and people often ask about Australia, what is it? Because it’s can be an ambiguous name. Essentially we only run awards programs,  so kind of a bit management, kind of Community involvement and engagement that’s always around awards because we believe that awards programs are the perfect vehicle for sharing inspirational stories. And that’s just what we do. The nominations come in, in this case, we’re talking about the leadership awards with our guest today. The young people doing incredible things that need to be celebrated, that need to be promoted. And the judging process helps us to identify the most impactful stories, the ones that are really standing out. And then through promotional campaign and our awards nights, we’re able to share their stories to the public. And so that’s why we love awards programs, and that’s a little bit about what we do. And obviously the podcast is a great way to share those stories as well. This episode is brought to you by spirit Super, the Super fund for hard working Australians. Apart from being one of australia’s easiest Super funds, the deal with spirit strip is also the proud sponsor of the young Australian achiever awards right across the nation. That’s because as a Super fund spirit, Super knows the importance of investing in your future. More importantly, they’re committed to using your hard earned Super savings to invest in initiatives that build a brighter future for us all. Whether it’s celebrating our community champions or supporting local businesses, technology and innovation group, it’s helping make a real difference. So if you’re looking for a Super fund that’s invested in you and your future, it all starts with spirit. The more info that a spirit,  Super Superconductor you to the pads and team, we become that I use Flash pads before making a decision. The issuer is motor trade association of Australia, Superannuation fund, PTI, or date,  and advice is provided by quadrant first party loyalty day. So thanks Super and on to today’s guest, who was actually the twenty, twenty two winner of the spirit Super create change, awarded just new South Wales, an act someone that I’ve had the pleasure of meeting twice before and both times left a profound impact with me in the way they spoke the way they presented themselves and the genuine passion for helping others and youth really shone through. So that guest is of course Angelique. One who also was announced as the twenty twenty two young achieve of the year an act. So I’d say Angelique. Welcome and also you probably the most credentialed guest I’ve had in this podcast.

[00:03:32] Wan

So thanks for Thank you just that such a flattering kind introduction. Absolutely welcome. And I obviously every single word of it.

[00:03:42] Josh

So just to fill in guests who might be hearing about you for the first time you co-founded and you’re CEO of concert Labs,  tell me if I’m getting any of this wrong, a non-profit that revolutionizes the discussion around sexual Consent. And obviously you started that as a co-founder was I’m always interested in how that works is the co-founding team was asked about that later. But it’s focused on developing an evidence based program, consulted and built relationships with experts and collective. This is what the consultants has done, conducted focus group discussions for market research. And I understand you even left a corporate job to work in this full time and devote your attention to it. Reaching over ten thousand hands,

[00:04:28] Wan

we’ve actually now reached over fifty thousand

[00:04:31] Josh

GS the lots change and a lot has

[00:04:33] Wan

changed. It has. Yeah, yeah,

[00:04:36] Josh

that’s pretty full on so yeah,  so welcome. What’s happening with you this morning just to start things off.

[00:04:42] Wan

It’s been a really good morning just catching up with the team and it’s really exciting to be

[00:04:47] Wan

able to use the word team now because as you just said, Josh,

[00:04:50] Wan

a lot has changed in the past couple of months,

[00:04:52] Wan

which means really growing out the internal capacity that we have to be able to make impact. So we’re now

[00:05:00] Wan

a team of almost twenty people. And to think that, you know,

[00:05:06] Wan

just two years ago I was the first and only employee and how that has really

[00:05:12] Wan

changed. So yeah, a really lovely morning just catching up with a couple of team members and,

[00:05:17] Wan

and seeing what they’ve got on their plate.

[00:05:21] Josh

Yeah. Rapid growth and,  and very exciting because I think

[00:05:24] Josh

a lot of people associate Rapid growth with startups like tech in the finance industry. Verticals and things like that,

[00:05:32] Josh

but this is something that’s focused on really helping people and making

[00:05:36] Josh

a difference in Education in people’s lives. So how have you kind of had that

[00:05:43] Josh

startup approach but in a not for profit way?

[00:05:47] Wan

I think that’s a really good question because I think sometimes there’s

[00:05:51] Wan

a perception that not for profits don’t operate like a business. I don’t think that ethos is true at all.

[00:06:02] Wan

I actually think, you know,  we are not for profit because impact to us. The positive impact on social justice

[00:06:10] Wan

is ultimately a driving force and our mission. But at the same time, we have

[00:06:15] Wan

a duty to make sure that we are operating as efficiently as any for profit

[00:06:22] Wan

organization would to make sure that we are making good money choices. Our

[00:06:29] Wan

decisions are founded in good governance and all of that we do to make sure that we

[00:06:35] Wan

can exist sustainably as an organization to get to the impact that

[00:06:42] Wan

we started content Labs for which is ultimately to end gender based violence.

[00:06:48] Josh

Yeah,  well that’s a good approach to take, isn’t it?  Because if you take that businesslike approach,

[00:06:53] Josh

you’re obviously going to be able to do a lot more. I think, you know,

[00:06:58] Josh

a lot of not for profit and charities have the best intents,

[00:07:02] Josh

the best thoughts are at hand, but if you’re only devoting

[00:07:04] Josh

a little bit of time to it, it’s hard to make much impact.

[00:07:08] Wan

Yeah, exactly,  and I think, you know,  the goal of eliminating gender based violence in Australia. It’s

[00:07:14] Wan

a big goal. It’s going to take more than years,

[00:07:18] Wan

it’s going to take decades.

[00:07:19] Wan

And so Consent Labs need to be around for that amount

[00:07:22] Wan

of time if we’re really going to make and see systemic change. So I think just

[00:07:27] Wan

being really wise about the way in which we operate as an organisation,  even though we are not for profit,

[00:07:34] Josh

I suppose to some people, you know,  tackling gender based violence can send quite abstract. You know,

[00:07:39] Josh

do you find yourself having to explain having to justify yourself even on what you’re doing?

[00:07:46] Wan

I do. I think that there’s

[00:07:47] Wan

a lot more awareness in broader community now than there was seven years ago when

[00:07:53] Wan

we saw the Consent logs and to be honest,

[00:07:56] Wan

even then I didn’t have the vocabulary or the language or the understanding myself

[00:08:03] Wan

to properly explain it. I started Consent Labs, I think just because I could feel,  you know,

[00:08:09] Wan

the daily occurrence of gender based violence in my own life. But essentially it is an acknowledgement that

[00:08:16] Wan

a lot of sexual family and domestic violence is rooted in gender. And that statistically,

[00:08:24] Wan

women are more likely to be victims of those forms of violence. And

[00:08:31] Wan

that things like gender inequality are real drivers of sexual violence and real

[00:08:38] Wan

drivers of the reason why women are overrepresented in those statistics. But it’s

[00:08:43] Wan

also, you know, I think a lot of the,

[00:08:46] Wan

my role is explaining why the work that we do is really important in addressing gender based violence. Because there’s

[00:08:55] Wan

a lot of different ways in which you can fix things or try to end things. And we

[00:09:01] Wan

are just one piece of the puzzle.

[00:09:05] Wan

The piece that we work in is

[00:09:08] Wan

prevention. So trying to prevent violence before it happens in the first place,  or at least ensuring that people have

[00:09:15] Wan

a knowledge or an understanding of where they can seek support if something non-consensual has happened.

[00:09:23] Josh

And what age students and people are you talking to? Because obviously from what I’ve heard being

[00:09:31] Josh

a dad of six and five year old and everything is all just

[00:09:38] Josh

learning our ABCs and our numbers. But from people,

[00:09:43] Josh

parents who have kids in high School and things and young people themselves directly. Obviously, yes,

[00:09:49] Josh

sex is becoming so prevalent at young ages and being exposed to things online. So

[00:09:56] Josh

you know, this kind of stuff is really important from a young age.

[00:09:59] Wan

Yeah,  it is. So the average age that person engages in sex

[00:10:06] Wan

is about fifteen years old. The average age that

[00:10:11] Wan

a person will watch pornography is about thirteen years old. Just to give you an

[00:10:15] Wan

idea of maybe when people are starting to engage in sexual activity at Consent Labs.

[00:10:22] Wan

Now our passion is young people. That’s why we started the organization and why

[00:10:28] Wan

the organization is youth led and youth driven. We have

[00:10:32] Wan

a real passion for working with students in the school space and in the University

[00:10:38] Wan

space and ensuring that they are empowered with knowledge and language. But we

[00:10:44] Wan

also work with the people that support and are role models to young people.

[00:10:50] Wan


[00:10:50] Wan

people like parents and carers, so like yourself Josh,

[00:10:53] Wan

but also the teachers and the educators of young people so that everyone sort of

[00:10:57] Wan

has a shared understanding of what, you know,

[00:10:59] Wan

a healthy respect for relationship looks like or what sexual violence looks like.

[00:11:04] Wan

And it’s just a fast way to move the needle with

[00:11:07] Wan

a low community is able to understand and really support young people to engage in

[00:11:13] Wan

healthy relationships. So right now we only work with as young as high School

[00:11:19] Wan

students. So we’ll start working with students from seven onwards,  but Consent education or respect for relationships,

[00:11:28] Wan

education should absolutely start at an early age. It’s just about delivering it in

[00:11:32] Wan

an age appropriate way. So you’re obviously not starting to talk about sex when

[00:11:37] Wan

your kids are as young as yours, Josh,

[00:11:39] Wan

but you can still start to have conversations around what Consent is and bodily

[00:11:45] Wan

autonomy and setting boundaries and just those sorts of conversations.

[00:11:51] Josh

For sure.  Yeah, I’m really loving that there’s, you know,

[00:11:55] Josh

children’s books now that focused on bodies and what it means to have, you know,

[00:12:00] Josh

being the boss of your own body and what that means and using anatomically,

[00:12:05] Josh

correct terms and things like that because yeah,  I Wasn’t aware of any of that stuff, know?

[00:12:10] Josh

Oh neither. But now we see that there’s great stuff happening and obviously the work that you’re doing is

[00:12:18] Josh

a huge part of bringing people up. So you mentioned high School and we’re going to

[00:12:23] Josh

come back to content Labs soon,

[00:12:24] Josh

but I want to just kind of rewind back and talk about you being in high school

[00:12:28] Josh

because, you know, I’m trying to do maths here. You’re saying seven years ago,  kind of co-founding content, content Labs,

[00:12:35] Josh

and you may have been in high school or around that

[00:12:38] Josh

age. And I know that, you know,

[00:12:41] Josh

you had a lot on your plate in high School and between academic life volunteering,

[00:12:47] Josh

extracurricular stuff. You know what you doing in high school?

[00:12:50] Josh

? Were you aware of all the stuff at that age or are you just blissfully unaware of

[00:12:55] Josh

writing through your what happened to Angelique at that age?

[00:12:58] Wan

I was not at all thinking about Consent at Labs or I actually had no idea

[00:13:04] Wan

what the word Consent was or that it impacted my relationships because it was never

[00:13:09] Wan

taught to me. So it Wasn’t,

[00:13:12] Wan

it Wasn’t on my mind when I was in high school. I was very academically focused.

[00:13:19] Wan

I grew up in a culturally diverse household,

[00:13:22] Wan

so my mom is Greek and my dad is Chinese and to them,

[00:13:25] Wan

academics was everything. So I really cared about studying about doing well. I put

[00:13:35] Wan

a lot of pressure on myself to get the best marks that I could. And I was really

[00:13:41] Wan

focused on University and setting myself up as best as I could to get into

[00:13:50] Wan

a quote unquote good degree at University.

[00:13:54] Wan

That was sort of like where all my

[00:13:55] Wan

energy was really focused on at school.

[00:14:00] Josh

Yeah,  it’s funny looking back and thinking how much it was about going to get that school

[00:14:07] Josh

get to that cause I remember as well. I was way lazier. Yeah. And it just easy

[00:14:12] Josh

enough to get decent grades,

[00:14:14] Josh

but couldn’t be bothered putting in the work to kind of get up to those amazing

[00:14:17] Josh

grades. I remember missing out on the course I wanted by such

[00:14:22] Josh

a small amount like it was, Wasn’t even one point whatever it was anyway,

[00:14:28] Josh

drinking Oh, maybe I’ll get it as

[00:14:29] Josh

a second preference or something. Yeah. And I was really disappointed at the time and

[00:14:35] Wan

what was that cause

[00:14:36] Josh

I was just a bachelor of marketing, but again it was at

[00:14:39] Josh

a certain University and that kind of thing. So it was a WPA, whatever it was,

[00:14:45] Josh

it was like a specific type of marketing degree and I’m not doing

[00:14:47] Josh

a different business, but I’m looking back and that was a bit not silly at all,

[00:14:53] Josh

but it’s just funny that was such a clear focus.

[00:14:57] Wan

Yeah,  I mean that like anything other than applying myself Wasn’t a choice,

[00:15:03] Wan

like my parents, like I said, we’re really focused on academic results. You know,

[00:15:09] Wan

they didn’t have the opportunity for education themselves when they were growing up.

[00:15:15] Wan

And so they saw it as a real privilege and I guess as a result,

[00:15:22] Wan

they really expected me and my sister as well to apply ourselves and to,  to

[00:15:27] Josh

try. Yeah.

[00:15:29] Josh

So the pressure was on from yourself. It was on.

[00:15:32] Wan


[00:15:33] Josh

Parents.  Yeah. Does that mean you kind of had a limited social life as well?

[00:15:39] Wan

Yeah,  I would say my parents were pretty strict. I Wasn’t allowed to date in school. I had

[00:15:46] Wan

a really good group of friends. I would say I’ve always been quite lucky in friendship,

[00:15:52] Wan

in just being surrounded by really good quality people and having good people

[00:15:57] Wan

around me. And I was social too to a certain degree, but I Wasn’t

[00:16:01] Wan

a rebellious child. I was not a rebellious child. That was,  that was my sister. You

[00:16:07] Josh

have her Younger sister.

[00:16:09] Wan

Yeah. Younger sister I was like the very classic sort of eldest in the family like goody two shoes. Very

[00:16:17] Wan


[00:16:18] Josh

Yeah. That’s funny. The cliche is a classic for a reason, aren’t they?

[00:16:23] Wan

Yeah, they are. They really are.

[00:16:26] Josh

So you’re going through high School and then yeah,  what was your uh, you, you mentioned that cause did you,

[00:16:33] Josh

did you make that course that you had in your sights that you had targeted?

[00:16:38] Wan

I honestly had no clear direction of what I wanted to do at University. I just knew

[00:16:45] Wan

that I had to get into University like there was no discussion of anything else,

[00:16:51] Wan

like my parents wouldn’t have allowed me to take a gap year. I never considered something like

[00:16:57] Wan

a type. I never considered something like entrepreneurship or starting my own thing

[00:17:01] Wan

like it was a really sort of, I guess, traditional version of success or like

[00:17:06] Wan

a really sort of traditional path that I was

[00:17:08] Wan

. But,

[00:17:09] Wan

but that’s what my parents thought would be best for me. And I didn’t really know

[00:17:14] Wan

how to argue otherwise, because yeah, I just had no clear direction of,

[00:17:19] Wan

of what I wanted for myself or what I felt really passionate about. So in the

[00:17:24] Wan

absence of that passion I was like, okay, I guess, you know,  this sounds good. So yeah,

[00:17:29] Wan

when it came to sort of year twelve and thinking about what I wanted to do next,

[00:17:33] Wan

I just sort of grappled with all of the really sort of usual stuff. Like,

[00:17:38] Wan

do I do med, do I do business do like to law like I don’t know,

[00:17:43] Wan

none of it really grabbed me. It Wasn’t like I

[00:17:47] Wan

sort of woke up and was like, yes,

[00:17:49] Wan

this is what I see for myself. But I ended up getting into a cooperative scholarship at UTC,

[00:17:58] Wan

which I accepted because it one was a scholarship,  which was really nice. And two,

[00:18:07] Wan

gave me internship experiences throughout my degree. And I really liked the idea of

[00:18:12] Wan

having sort of practical experiences instead of just sort of theoretically sitting

[00:18:17] Wan

at Uni. So I ended up accepting that degree and,  and going on to study accounting and finance. But again,

[00:18:26] Wan

it Wasn’t something where I particularly felt passion about it was sort of just the

[00:18:32] Wan

best opportunity that was presented to me at that time. So I took it

[00:18:36] Josh

yet,  but I want to anger any accounting finance people out there. But yet you’re much

[00:18:41] Josh

more interesting than the normal board of accounting finance types. So yeah, yeah,

[00:18:48] Josh

that does sound like a really cool idea though,

[00:18:49] Josh

where you get to have those internships and was that at multiple companies?

[00:18:52] Wan

Yeah, I,  I honestly loved it. I feel like every single degree should do something similar.

[00:19:00] Wan

So my degree was for three years, and I got two,

[00:19:05] Wan

six month internships throughout the three years at two different companies. And it

[00:19:10] Wan

was just so I feel like you learn so much more on the job than in Uni,

[00:19:16] Wan

like I think Uni is great for the foundation. But being able to apply it is just

[00:19:22] Wan

a completely other thing,  a much better way of learning. And to also be able to start to build the

[00:19:30] Wan

soft skills of how do you exist in a company in an organization?

[00:19:36] Wan

? How do you build relationships? How do you be professional?

[00:19:39] Wan

How do you send an email? How do you set up a meeting?

[00:19:41] Wan

? And just like all those really small things and,

[00:19:44] Wan

and all the soft skills I think was really fantastic to sort of start to develop I

[00:19:50] Wan

guess ahead of maybe a lot of other people. I loved it.

[00:19:54] Wan

I really loved the practical applications that

[00:19:57] Wan

my degree gave me

[00:19:59] Josh

and so you’ve done your degree,  you’re interning. Now I understand that you studied at Oxford for

[00:20:07] Josh

a little while or you had an experience to go over

[00:20:10] Josh

there. Where did that fit in the timeline?

[00:20:13] Wan

Yeah,  that was an amazing opportunity. It actually happened during high School. I think I

[00:20:20] Wan

was in between ten and eleven or maybe year eleven and twelve and it was just

[00:20:26] Wan

a short summer course. So a couple of weeks long,  but it was really amazing because you

[00:20:36] Wan

learn alongside people from all over the world. So just great in terms of exposure

[00:20:42] Wan

are great for independence. That was the first time that I’d sort of lived away

[00:20:47] Wan

from home for the first time and that really I loved. I love the independence to be honest.

[00:20:55] Josh

I think you either go one or two ways of that you’d like. This is great. I

[00:20:58] Josh

want more of this or no thanks. I

[00:21:01] Wan

loved it. I loved it. And it was

[00:21:05] Wan

interesting because you could sort of choose which subjects you wanted to do. And I

[00:21:11] Wan

ended up choosing, I think, a lot of Psychology related subjects because there was

[00:21:15] Wan

a point in my life where I really thought that that’s what I’d want to do. And

[00:21:18] Wan

through those courses at Oxford, I was like, okay, no,

[00:21:20] Wan

maybe I don’t want to do this is not what I

[00:21:22] Wan

thought. So it was good just to be able

[00:21:25] Wan

to try something new and see whether I liked it and then ultimately decide that I

[00:21:29] Wan

didn’t. But if I hadn’t had that opportunity to try it out,

[00:21:35] Wan

I might have ended up doing it, Uni might have

[00:21:37] Wan

hated it. So yeah, I really loved,  I loved that the couple of weeks that were amazing.

[00:21:44] Josh

Yeah,  I liked the kind of idea that you know, if you have the right mindset,

[00:21:49] Josh

you either win or you learn, you know,

[00:21:52] Josh

Yeah. In life. Yeah. I think that’s you know what you’re saying as well. Psychology

[00:21:59] Josh

was great and experience was amazing. Wasn’t a waste so much and it helped push you in

[00:22:05] Josh

a different direction. That was more in the right mindset.

[00:22:08] Wan

Yeah,  I think that’s exactly, and I think it’s,

[00:22:11] Wan

it’s also sort of just taking that first step and trying something out. I think,

[00:22:16] Wan

you know, if I could go back and give my, you twelve cents

[00:22:20] Wan

a piece of advice. I think it would just be take that first step,

[00:22:25] Wan

I think I was so paralyzed by choice and paralyzed by the fear that I would make

[00:22:31] Wan

the wrong choice. And I would set myself down

[00:22:33] Wan

a path that I would hate and I’d never be able

[00:22:36] Wan

to turn back. But that’s not true. I

[00:22:39] Wan

think with every step that you take more and more opportunities will present

[00:22:43] Wan

themselves that you wouldn’t have gotten otherwise. And you’ll be able to seize on

[00:22:48] Wan

those opportunities and pivot and swivel in whatever direction you want to go. But

[00:22:53] Wan

you’ve just got to make that first step. So yeah, it’s always a winner. It’s

[00:22:59] Wan

a learning opportunity, as you say.

[00:23:02] Josh

All right, so I want to get back to the,

[00:23:06] Josh

you know, the internships and things like that because that you started moving,

[00:23:11] Josh

you know, after your degree or during those internships and took quite

[00:23:14] Josh

a corporate career path. Right. Yeah. So was that just a natural next step?  You know,

[00:23:21] Josh

you’re talking about that classic pathway from high school to University in the

[00:23:25] Josh

corporate world. At the time. Do you remember being, you know,

[00:23:28] Josh

really excited to kind of land that first major job after Uni or are we still not

[00:23:34] Josh

sure which way you wanted to go?

[00:23:37] Wan

It was a mix of both of those emotions. I was definitely excited. I ended up getting accepted

[00:23:44] Wan

to the grad program at Macquarie bank,  and I think I was really swayed by those traditional ideals of

[00:23:53] Wan

success. Getting a highly sought after really competitive job in a global organisation that can give you heaps of opportunities,

[00:24:03] Wan

even opportunities to move overseas in an industry that’s well paid and seen as

[00:24:09] Wan

sort of reputable or respectable.

[00:24:12] Wan

Like I think all those sort of like really

[00:24:13] Wan

traditional ideas of success made me excited But I was also sort of, I think,

[00:24:22] Wan

confused because I Wasn’t particularly passionate about finance. Like I don’t know

[00:24:29] Wan

if people are passionate about finance. I’m sure that awesome people that all but

[00:24:34] Wan

it Wasn’t like I was waking up every day and I was like, yeah,

[00:24:37] Wan

finance. I’m so excited. Spend my zing on this

[00:24:40] Wan

So I think it was, you know,  a bit of both of those emotions like, yes,

[00:24:45] Wan

I’m excited by success. I guess you could say, but I’m also,  I guess

[00:24:53] Wan

a bit lost and maybe I grappled with questions around passion and purpose.

[00:25:00] Wan

And wondering whether I would ever find my passion or purpose in life and whether

[00:25:07] Wan

most people do, should I be spending more time exploring that?  But it’s also a really scary thing to,

[00:25:14] Wan

to make the time and space to do that. So yeah, definitely

[00:25:18] Wan

a mix of emotions I was feeling at that stage

[00:25:21] Josh

might have put a bit of a content morning on this podcast,

[00:25:23] Josh

but people in the accounting and banking industries despite the

[00:25:28] Wan

no to be honest,  like, I’m really grateful for my degree. I think it’s actually come in

[00:25:33] Wan

a lot of handy and the role I am now. Yeah,

[00:25:36] Wan

I obviously didn’t end up staying in that field. So content money.

[00:25:41] Josh

So you’re pretty young at this stage like obviously you’re a young person now still,

[00:25:44] Josh

but was it anything in your life that was helping you to kind of formulate these

[00:25:50] Josh

questions because to me and it’s just my personal take on it. They seemed like

[00:25:53] Josh

questions that might be for someone who’s been in their career for say, five,

[00:25:58] Josh

ten years. And they’re thinking about how do I know if I want to keep doing this.

[00:26:01] Josh

So you having them really early discussions. And

[00:26:05] Wan

I would say, I’ve always been a bit of a deep thinker, always quiet, introspective reflective, maybe even

[00:26:12] Wan

a bit philosophical. I would also say that with the degree, you know,  having those two,

[00:26:20] Wan

six month internship experiences really sort of accelerated my career and just the

[00:26:25] Wan

time that I’m sort of, you know, already spent working. So I was having,

[00:26:30] Wan

I was sort of used to operating in a corporate environment, you know, before,

[00:26:34] Wan

most people would have their first graduate experience. So I’d already sort of

[00:26:38] Wan

gotten acclimated to what it was like and the rhythm of working and then sort of

[00:26:43] Wan

the questions that come after you’ve had that honeymoon phase of being in

[00:26:48] Wan

a job for six months a year or two years.

[00:26:53] Wan

So yeah, I think a little bit of it is just my natural sort of inclination to to think to

[00:27:01] Wan

think deep.

[00:27:03] Josh

So is this where Consent leads us down to forming your mind or are

[00:27:08] Josh

you getting ideas about maybe I don’t want to be in corporate world?

[00:27:13] Wan

I had actually started working on Consent Labs throughout Uni.

[00:27:20] Wan

So while I was studying while I was doing these internships,

[00:27:22] Wan

I had started building Consent Labs with my co-founder Joyce. And

[00:27:29] Wan

for whatever reason, you know, I had really big goals and

[00:27:34] Wan

a really big vision of what content Labs could be and what it could achieve. And

[00:27:39] Wan

the impact that it could have,

[00:27:41] Wan

but I never really let myself dream that it would be my full time job,

[00:27:47] Wan

or that I would be the one sort of leading the organization. I think I was still

[00:27:52] Wan

sort of stuck on that traditional path. And the idea of maybe deviating from that

[00:27:59] Wan

a little bit was scary. To be honest. It

[00:28:02] Wan

felt like quite a, quite a big risk,  particularly in those early years. You know,

[00:28:07] Wan

we started concert Labs in twenty sixteen. And that was

[00:28:10] Wan

a period of time in which no one was talking about Consent. There was actually quite

[00:28:16] Wan

a lot of taboo and shame around the topic. I rarely discussed it with anyone

[00:28:24] Wan

that I thought wouldn’t get it. I didn’t talk to my parents about it because I knew

[00:28:30] Wan

they wouldn’t get it and yeah,

[00:28:33] Wan

it was in the last few years there was just no attraction and also to sort of

[00:28:38] Wan

imagine myself as you know,  leaving the really safe and stable career path of banking or corporate to,

[00:28:46] Wan

to take a risk,  didn’t feel real because it was sort of plugging away in the background whilst I

[00:28:54] Wan

was doing those internships and sort of having those corporate experiences.

[00:28:58] Josh

Yeah.  And so you mentioned you co-founded the Joyce, where did you meet Joyce?  And what was that shared passion,

[00:29:04] Josh

like that’s what I’m interested in. I said at the top,

[00:29:07] Josh

it co-founders depend on who they are too. Is it like

[00:29:09] Josh

a family members or close friends or someone you just met?

[00:29:12] Josh

Those have something clicks and you’re like, Oh we’ve got this shared passion,  let’s do it.

[00:29:17] Wan

Yeah, it was a lot of for Joyce and I’ve known Joyce since primary school. We went to the same

[00:29:22] Wan

school and pretty much grew up together. We sort of went separate ways.  When we went to University,

[00:29:30] Wan

we were on separate University campuses studying separate degrees,  but very much remained close friends and I think were

[00:29:41] Wan

having conversations about our shared experiences,  living on different University campuses,

[00:29:46] Wan

particularly having conversations around shared experiences of sort of sexual violence being the norm particularly things like sexual harassment,

[00:29:54] Wan

just being like an absolute daily occurrence. Not just for us, but for

[00:29:58] Wan

a lot of our peers and sort of grappling with questions around well,

[00:30:05] Wan

is this illegal, am I making a big deal out of this?

[00:30:08] Wan

? Do I have the right to tell anyone or to seek support or to report it?

[00:30:12] Wan

? And I don’t think either of us really launched into this to build

[00:30:18] Wan

a business. We really launched into this to make a difference. And we saw such an opportunity and such

[00:30:24] Wan

a gap in the market in terms of Consent education being done in the way that we

[00:30:31] Wan

felt was important.

[00:30:34] Wan

But yeah,  we sort of just very naively deep dives into content loves

[00:30:41] Josh

yeah, well firstly gross, that, that stuff was such a prevalent occurrence,

[00:30:46] Josh

you know, and secondly, for men who don’t get it. Unfortunately,

[00:30:52] Josh

that is the reason that this exists and they probably going to be pretty tricky to

[00:30:57] Josh

win over because they just can’t understand it. For some reason it’s very sad,  but you know,

[00:31:04] Josh

you’ve obviously taken these really negative situations and experiences and tried

[00:31:11] Josh

to get to do something that people, as you were saying, it Wasn’t

[00:31:16] Josh

a big conversation at the time and bringing it into the conversation. That’s pretty,  it’s pretty huge stuff.

[00:31:22] Wan

Yeah, and I think, I mean,

[00:31:24] Wan

so sort of the question that you raised before I think that was honestly the saving

[00:31:29] Wan

grace of having a co-founder and a co-founder that you trust. Like I think having a friendship before starting

[00:31:38] Wan

a business was a real I think a real bonus and

[00:31:44] Wan

a real positive. It has been a real positive for us,

[00:31:46] Wan

knowing that the other person gets you, gets it understands the strength,  your weaknesses, your communication style. That’s really important,

[00:31:57] Wan

but I think having a co-founder has been amazing in being able to move through really challenging

[00:32:05] Wan

times. Whether that’s because, you know,

[00:32:07] Wan

the space that we work in is just odd sometimes or because you face rejection.

[00:32:14] Wan

I think being able to do this work alongside someone is just so much more well motivating. I don’t,

[00:32:22] Wan

I definitely could not have done this alone.

[00:32:25] Josh

So when is the decision and what have been kind of lingering for

[00:32:30] Josh

a while to officially turn your back on this corporate career that you’ve worked

[00:32:37] Josh

really hard to get yourself into and side question, what did your parents say?

[00:32:46] Wan

Yeah, there was definitely a turning point that was

[00:32:48] Wan

a very clear turning point for Labs. And for me Personally in twenty twenty one,

[00:32:54] Wan

as I sort of have said up until that point, there was

[00:32:58] Wan

a real void of conversation around this and we were finding it really hard to get

[00:33:05] Wan

buy in from any school,

[00:33:06] Wan

any University. No one wanted to work with us. No one wanted to take the risk on

[00:33:11] Wan

two young people. No one wanted to take the risk on having conversations around

[00:33:15] Wan

Consent. It just felt too hard.

[00:33:19] Wan

And so our business Wasn’t viable up until twenty,

[00:33:22] Wan

twenty one. But at that point, you know,

[00:33:26] Wan

a couple of really key figures started to speak really loudly on Consent

[00:33:33] Wan

and institutional responsibility as well. So I’m thinking of the last time and

[00:33:39] Wan

Brittany Higgins, emotional control and Consent really sort of came to the fore in

[00:33:46] Wan

a way that it hadn’t before. So we started to see

[00:33:50] Wan

a real increase in demand for our services at Consent Labs. So that was one piece of it. You know,

[00:33:55] Wan

the business was getting really busy and there was no one working on it full time.

[00:34:01] Wan

But at that same point in my life, I had just been offered a role in London and

[00:34:07] Wan

a role in New York with Macquarie. And so it was

[00:34:10] Wan

a real sort of crossroads moment for me where I had to decide do I continue to go

[00:34:17] Wan

down this path of sort of corporate success and what I’d always envisioned for

[00:34:22] Wan

myself, or do I just risk it all and take

[00:34:27] Wan

a leap of faith and really back myself to do this thing that I care so deeply about.

[00:34:34] Wan

And it was a lot of conversations with Joyce,

[00:34:38] Wan

a lot of conversations with my partner. And ultimately I decided this is,

[00:34:44] Wan

it’s a now on, at the moment, you know

[00:34:46] Wan

at this moment in time, in Australia,

[00:34:49] Wan

where we have seen so much focus and so much action around Consent is

[00:34:55] Wan

never going to come again. And I would probably kick myself in

[00:35:01] Wan

a couple of years if I didn’t take the opportunity to just see what we could do.

[00:35:06] Wan

And I really believed in our education program at Consent Labs. I knew that there was

[00:35:13] Wan

a need for it. I knew that young people liked what we had and so I

[00:35:21] Wan

just decided to give it a go. I had

[00:35:25] Wan

a conversation with my manager at Macquarie and fully expected him to not get it,

[00:35:31] Wan

but he was actually so incredibly supportive. He said,  take twelve months off from work and go try it out,

[00:35:39] Wan

see how you go. If it doesn’t go well,

[00:35:41] Wan

you can come back. If it does go well,  you just keep going. And so that’s, that’s what I did,

[00:35:48] Wan

and my parents didn’t get it. My dad thought I was working on a website

[00:35:55] Wan

And my mom was really apprehensive.  I think,

[00:36:00] Wan

to her sort of talking about those really traditional ideas of success. Like she thought I’d made it, you know,

[00:36:06] Wan

having studied really hard in University and having gotten myself a good job and

[00:36:11] Wan

a stable job. She thought I was set. And so yeah, she really,

[00:36:16] Wan

she didn’t understand. Initially she thought it was incredibly risky,

[00:36:20] Wan

but it’s taken her some time. It’s taken them both some time, but I think they,  they understand it now.

[00:36:27] Josh

Yeah. And that’s such a tricky one with parents and,  you know, we,

[00:36:31] Josh

we know that they want the best for their kids. They want the best for us and

[00:36:35] Josh

that’s coming from the right place. But it is,

[00:36:38] Josh

is hard. So it doesn’t make it any easier when the can feel like why don’t you

[00:36:42] Josh

backing me, you know, want you supporting me. So that’s

[00:36:45] Josh

a tricky one and all credit to you on having the guts to make that tough choice

[00:36:53] Josh

and sticking it out. And you know,  people don’t do things to be nominated or win awards,

[00:36:58] Josh

but being ahead in my run here. But I’m, you know,  I don’t put words in your mouth,

[00:37:05] Josh

but to receive some of the accolades you have, you know,  that must be affirming to say, well,

[00:37:11] Josh

I made the right choice.

[00:37:13] Wan

Yeah. It absolutely is. I think you’re right in that I, I don’t do the work or the accolades,

[00:37:22] Wan

the impact that we’re able to make.

[00:37:24] Wan

And the feedback that we get from,  from students, from their parents,

[00:37:27] Wan

from the teachers is so motivating. That’s the reason why I do the work. But

[00:37:35] Wan

those awards are also so special, I think to,  to even encourage me to sort of take

[00:37:43] Wan

a moment to pause and reflect on the journey and how incredibly

[00:37:50] Wan

challenging it has been at so many points. But the fact that we persevered,

[00:37:54] Wan

and we’re here and the true change that we’re making in the world. And I think it also serves

[00:38:02] Wan

a purpose to continue to raise awareness for the need for this education

[00:38:09] Wan

and for the continued need to focus on making change in this space specifically. So

[00:38:16] Wan

yeah, I think I really value the accolades as being an opportunity to,  to reflect and to be

[00:38:24] Wan

a bit proud of myself. I’m not good at not doing that naturally. So I think yeah,

[00:38:30] Wan

the awards are all really I guess valuable for that reason for me Personally. Yeah.

[00:38:37] Josh

So what’s day one of you full time employee of content. I’m

[00:38:42] Josh

picturing you sitting just like at a desk kind of. No. Yeah.

[00:38:46] Josh

What do I do?

[00:38:49] Josh

How was it that you as busy and it was ready and there was that time to dive in?

[00:38:54] Wan

No, it was chaotic. It was definitely a massive learning curve. Personally and professionally I would say it was just

[00:39:03] Wan

doing the absolute most and doing a bit of everything you know,  doing the partnerships, doing the finance,

[00:39:11] Wan

doing the social media doing the strategy like just doing everything and never

[00:39:17] Wan

feeling like it was enough or never feeling like my to do list was anywhere near

[00:39:22] Wan

done. And I think for someone like myself who clearly puts a lot of pressure on themselves, that was

[00:39:32] Wan

a real learning curve for me Personally in how I manage sort of expectations and

[00:39:38] Wan

how I speak to myself and all of that. How do you be an entrepreneur?

[00:39:42] Wan

I think is a skill that no one really teaches you, or at least Wasn’t

[00:39:47] Wan

a conversation that I was having when I was in school or in Uni,

[00:39:51] Wan

I think time to sort of changing now, but yeah, it was, it was

[00:39:54] Wan

a real learning curve and it was it was chaotic, it took a while to like get into

[00:39:59] Wan

a bit of a rhythm. That’s for sure.

[00:40:01] Josh

Yeah. Did you struggle with the balance at first because

[00:40:03] Josh

when you’ve got a target, a goal that is so big as yours?

[00:40:08] Josh

It’s so wide reaching you could work twenty four hours every day because yeah, no,  it’s not like

[00:40:13] Josh

a job where none of my tasks are done for the day. No. You have to draw

[00:40:18] Josh

a line somewhere because otherwise. Yeah. Yeah, you can burn out.

[00:40:22] Wan

Yeah. Oh,  absolutely. I mean, I still struggle with that to this day. I think it’s

[00:40:27] Wan

a little bit better now that I’ve got a team and I’ve sort of had now two and

[00:40:32] Wan

a half years to figure out how to find balance. But in those early days. Yeah,

[00:40:37] Wan

it was all consuming and I think again that was the benefit of having Joyce as

[00:40:42] Wan

a co-founder and to sort of Be that voice of reason to say you also need to look

[00:40:47] Wan

after yourself like that to do with Will always be there and will always be growing,

[00:40:51] Wan

but you have to trust that you’ve done enough,

[00:40:54] Wan

but today you’ve probably done more than enough for today and you should be really proud of that. So yeah,

[00:41:01] Wan

I think it’s having good people around you as well to remind you that work life balance is important.

[00:41:08] Josh

And what’s it like?  I love that you were talking about you doing the social media doing everything,

[00:41:13] Josh

all the little things. Transitioning from I’m doing it all to now. Okay,

[00:41:18] Josh

I’ve got team members, but I have to not only let them do it,

[00:41:23] Josh

empower them to do it and own it. I’ve got to,

[00:41:25] Josh

I’m going to put my focus on these other areas,  which is where my attention is. Is that been difficult?

[00:41:32] Wan

Like yes or no on one hand,  it’s honestly been fantastic. I think it really forces you to better understand

[00:41:40] Wan

your own strengths and weaknesses and build a team where your weaknesses are specifically. And I think it’s really just

[00:41:49] Wan

highlighted how much faster the company can grow. When you’ve got people with the appropriate skill sets,

[00:42:00] Wan

doing the things like I’m specifically thinking about marketing as an example. I don’t come from

[00:42:05] Wan

a marketing background. I had no idea how to tackle our marketing strategy or channel,

[00:42:11] Wan

or like all of that sort of stuff. And we’ve just recently hired someone the head

[00:42:15] Wan

of marketing role and to just see their capabilities, their ideas,  their skill sets. I’m just like, wow,

[00:42:20] Wan

I could never have achieved this if I was doing it myself. But there was also a bit of

[00:42:27] Wan

a challenge with I guess sort of loss of control. And that’s just something that

[00:42:35] Wan

I have to get used to, I think,

[00:42:37] Wan

yeah. When you’ve been doing something for so long and it’s your baby and you really care about it,

[00:42:43] Wan

it’s hard to sort of give that control away.

[00:42:48] Wan

But I also feel really

[00:42:50] Wan

lucky in that my team are so passionate about the work that we do. It can be,

[00:42:57] Wan

they get the mission,  they get our vision and our values. And so I have full trust in the

[00:43:05] Wan

decisions that they’re making in the work at the putting out there.

[00:43:08] Josh

Yeah. Do you find being a, I’m not sure how that phrase question,

[00:43:12] Josh

but because the values and the mission is obviously the absolute why you do.

[00:43:20] Josh

Yeah. Is that make it harder to get the right people in or make it easier?

[00:43:24] Josh

? Because, you know, you can easily just say, okay, they’re not,

[00:43:28] Wan

it makes it easier. It makes it so easy in an interview. If someone doesn’t know

[00:43:34] Wan

our mission or doesn’t know our values,

[00:43:36] Wan

it comes across so quickly in the first couple of minutes and that’s that’s an

[00:43:42] Wan

instant for me. Like I think the,

[00:43:44] Wan

the mission and the why we exist is really cool. Consent Labs. I don’t think it is for

[00:43:49] Wan

a lot of not for profits like you really have to resonate with that in order to be

[00:43:54] Wan

a good fit. So yeah,  it makes it easier. Yeah.

[00:43:58] Josh

And so with this team now behind you,

[00:44:02] Josh

with a couple of years under your belt of, of leading the ship.

[00:44:06] Josh

What’s next,

[00:44:06] Josh

what’s on the horizon for content Labs?

[00:44:10] Wan

It’s a really exciting moment of time for us. So we are currently based in New South Wales.

[00:44:17] Wan

The entire team is based in New South Wales,

[00:44:19] Wan

but obviously the demand for content education is all across Australia and we’ve been seeing

[00:44:26] Wan

a lot of demand coming up from other states. So in twenty twenty four will be setting up

[00:44:33] Wan

a team in Victoria in Melbourne to be able to cater to that community

[00:44:40] Wan

better and more holistically. So that’s incredibly exciting to be able to expand

[00:44:46] Wan

our team and make more impact on the ground. And to support that work,  we are about to launch

[00:44:53] Wan

a campaign for end of year. It’s called charity Kringle.

[00:44:59] Wan

And the idea

[00:45:00] Wan

behind that is that every year Australians spend one hundred and seventy nine

[00:45:05] Wan

million dollars on wasted and unwanted Christmas gifts, often for

[00:45:10] Wan

a Kris Kringle. But how powerful could it be if instead you

[00:45:16] Wan

give the gift of impact and you make that money count by donating it to charities.  So we’re gathering

[00:45:24] Wan

a collective of charities in Australia that will work and support young people. In

[00:45:29] Wan

some ways it might be sensations. People young people, it might be young people of

[00:45:36] Wan

a disability or young people’s mental health. And we’re encouraging people to make

[00:45:41] Wan

donations to those charities as that Kris Kringle gifts. So yeah,  two exciting pieces on the cards for us

[00:45:49] Josh

is, I mean I’m an excellent gift purchaser,

[00:45:53] Josh

But definitely I receive a lot of unwanted gifts.

[00:45:56] Wan

Yep. Yep.

[00:45:57] Wan

So let your friends know or your family or

[00:46:00] Josh

declined that,  but that’s easier for me because I put this effort into it. I’m like, Oh,

[00:46:05] Josh

what am I going to get to really, you know,

[00:46:06] Josh

deep diving into perfect gift. This is great because that it’s

[00:46:10] Wan

about your money’s going towards

[00:46:11] Josh

impact. Exactly.

[00:46:12] Wan

And supporting young people.

[00:46:14] Josh

Yep. And yeah, it’s a really good idea. And how can people, if they’re wanting to purchase that as,

[00:46:21] Josh

as one of the Kris Kringle gifts, where do they go?

[00:46:24] Wan

You can go on to our Instagram at us or our website, W,

[00:46:29] Wan

WW Consent Labs dot org. Go to you. The campaign will be going live beginning of December.

[00:46:35] Josh

Yep. Perfect.

[00:46:36] Josh

Well this podcast is probably coming out in that first week of December, so amazing timing, beautiful,

[00:46:41] Josh

and hopefully people listening cannot purchase their gifts for Christmas and

[00:46:48] Josh

whatever they’re celebrating because that’s such a good idea. And yeah,  how exciting about melbourne’s obviously,

[00:46:52] Josh

that’s where I’m based. If you need any Melbourne tips you might,

[00:46:56] Josh

I’m really good at giving cafe recommendations. So that’s what I’m going to

[00:47:00] Wan

need.  Yeah, I’m going to need a Melbourne cafe’s restaurant

[00:47:03] Josh

recommendation. Yeah. Anything useful?  Don’t come to me about cafes. I can help you with competitions typically. That’s so

[00:47:11] Josh

exciting, huge,  huge things on the in the future for you and for mums.

[00:47:18] Wan

Yeah,  we’re really passionate about this education being accessible to all young people.

[00:47:25] Wan

And so sort of by having a team in Melbourne,  we’re able to work obviously on the ground in

[00:47:30] Wan

a much more accessible way as well as in start to access regional and rural and

[00:47:35] Wan

remote Victoria as well. It’s quite hard to do when your whole team is based in

[00:47:40] Wan

Sydney because of cost of travel associated. So yeah,

[00:47:44] Wan

to be able to actually have people on the ground and make impact in

[00:47:48] Wan

a much more accessible way is, is also because at mum’s.

[00:47:52] Josh

Yeah, for sure.

[00:47:54] Josh

Well,  allow me human to be the Segway. The other thing happening in December is the young

[00:47:58] Josh

achievement awards will be in full swing,  accepting nominations for young people all the way across Australia. So, you know,

[00:48:05] Josh

having been a young achiever of the year being presented up on stage yourself to accept an

[00:48:10] Josh

award. And then the following year, giving a bit of

[00:48:13] Josh

a speech and sharing your journey and passing on words of wisdom to other young

[00:48:18] Josh

achievers that the next year. What was that whole experience like for you being

[00:48:23] Josh

part of it? Yeah, and I guess I kind

[00:48:26] Josh

of walk through it then, but starting from,

[00:48:28] Josh

you know, going to the event and being announced as the winner was that

[00:48:32] Josh

a shock to you or were you thinking, I mean, a good shot here.

[00:48:35] Wan

No,  it was absolutely a shock. It was a really surreal experience. I loved the event,

[00:48:41] Wan

it was just so incredibly inspiring to be able to connect with other young people

[00:48:48] Wan

who are making their mark and making

[00:48:50] Wan

a difference in different ways and in very different ways to what I’m doing. So

[00:48:56] Wan

it’s incredibly inspiring and really motivating, actually to,  to see other passionate young people. Yeah, it was absolutely

[00:49:04] Wan

a shock to be named the young achiever of the year last year in twenty,

[00:49:08] Wan

twenty two because I sort of comparing myself to everyone else and just thinking

[00:49:12] Wan

everyone else is so incredible. But it was, it was an amazing platform,  an amazing opportunity. I think. Yeah,

[00:49:20] Wan

accolades are really accolades and awards are really helpful in continuing to raise

[00:49:24] Wan

awareness for the issues that that I’m working on. And in particular,

[00:49:30] Wan

championing young people and young people’s ability to make a difference and to make

[00:49:36] Wan

a change. I think often young people are dismissed or their voices are seen

[00:49:43] Wan

as important or worthwhile listening to because they don’t know enough.

[00:49:49] Wan

But I actually think that is a massive disservice and is

[00:49:55] Wan

a waste of the, the passion that the talent, the energy that

[00:50:00] Wan

a lot of young people do have. So yeah,  I love the opportunity that the awards gave to,

[00:50:06] Wan

to platform young people and the,  the real change that they’re bringing about in the

[00:50:12] Josh

world. Yeah,  definitely. I agree that you know, anytime we get

[00:50:15] Josh

a chance to hear young people speak and put their ideas forward,

[00:50:20] Josh

is we’re all better off for it because often they’re looking at things with

[00:50:25] Josh

a much fresher perspective and that comment problems in a different way. And

[00:50:30] Josh

a lot of the time it’s just like, Oh yeah that’s,  I never thought of it like that. That’s such

[00:50:34] Josh

a great example of us constantly getting those examples and and yes,

[00:50:40] Josh

I can’t wait to start getting in these nominations and hearing all their stories as well.

[00:50:45] Wan

Yep, everyone submit nominations it’s,  it’s an amazing opportunity to basically platforms

[00:50:52] Josh

and one thing I want to quickly touch on like you saying, you know, it’s a shock to,

[00:50:57] Josh

to be announced as the winner and you’re right there. So many great stories,

[00:51:00] Josh

but I think it’s a testament as well to show people that you know,

[00:51:03] Josh

if an employer or family member, whoever it is, knows a young person and they think, Oh,

[00:51:09] Josh

I don’t want to nominate them because they might not win. You know that,  that hold you back,

[00:51:15] Wan

you never know, I’m

[00:51:17] Josh

into them anyway and there’s, you know,

[00:51:18] Josh

some great things just for being involved. They come out of it as well. And yeah,  as you said,

[00:51:23] Josh

you never know. People are commonly shocked that they were announced as finalists or winners.

[00:51:28] Wan

And I think just even being a finalist and being able to, as I said,

[00:51:32] Wan

meet other young people and other people broadly who are so supportive of these

[00:51:38] Wan

young people. Even just being at the awards night was incredible. So even if you

[00:51:45] Wan

only get that far like that’s still a major win.

[00:51:48] Josh

Yeah,  definitely. Well enter at young achiever awards dot com. Angelique. Thank you for

[00:51:53] Josh

your time.

[00:51:54] Josh

Where can people find out more about Consent Labs or the connect on socials and to,

[00:52:00] Josh

to discover more and support you as well

[00:52:04] Wan

where Consent Labs on every single platform Instagram tik Tok, LinkedIn, Facebook or Yes,

[00:52:13] Wan

our website that W WW Consent Labs to help you.

[00:52:16] Josh

Brilliant, well,  you’re doing amazing work. You know,  I don’t like what people say. I’ll keep it up.

[00:52:24] Josh

But you know what might need to be,  because like it’s your life,

[00:52:27] Josh

it’s your passion. And hopefully everyone gets involved with charity Kringle and gets on board that.

[00:52:33] Wan

Yes, plays the court Charlie Kringle. Yes,  Thank you Josh. This has been a great conversation,  a great that

[00:52:40] Josh

I appreciate your time. Thank you so much. You

[00:52:47] Wan

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[00:52:53] Wan

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[00:52:58] Wan

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[00:53:20] Wan