In this week’s episode, Josh chats with Conor Pall, winner of the Spirit Super Connecting Communities Award at the 2022 7NEWS Young Achiever Awards Victoria.
Conor is a young person shaking up the family violence system, determined to use his lived experience as a male survivor, to drive change that matters in Victoria. He is youngest member to be appointed to the Victorian Victim Survivor’s Advisory Council, using his experiences to influence change in the way children and young people are seen as victim-survivors in their own right. Conor talks about his debut children’s book, The Shadow that Follows, which describes the shadow of family violence that can follow a child everywhere and impacts all aspects of their lives but is often not visible to others. He is passionate about primary prevention and early intervention, and sees his book as one day working alongside programs in schools like Respectful Relationships.
If you enjoy the Inspirational Australian’s Podcast, we’d love it if you could subscribe, rate and review. Find out how here.
To find out more connect with Conor Pall on Instagram @conor.pall and you can pre-order his book at his website; www.conorpall.com
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Hello and welcome to the Inspirational Australian’s podcast. This is season two, and I’m delighted to be joined by
a winner recently. I’ve been interviewing winners from our 2023, 7News Young Achiever Awards program,
but this young Person Conor is actually a winner from 2022. And it’s for me,
it’s fantastic because we were lining something up last year and for various reasons,
I probably had to canceled on Conor. We didn’t get it done. And so thanks to Spirit
Super who are sponsoring today’s episode, I’m able to make it happen and speak to Conor, you know,
some eighteen months down the track. And I’m actually really excited about that because it means there’s been quite
a good period since then to find out what Conor has been up to and to touch base
with Conor for example, one thing is that last year when we spoke,
Conor was based in Mildura and that’s not the case anymore. So tell me
a Bit about my guest for this weekly dose of inspiration. We’ll be chatting with Conor, who is
a young Person shaking up the family Violence system. Determined to use his lived experience as
a male survivor of domestic Violence to drive change that matters in Victoria.
Being the youngest member to be appointed to the Victorian victims survivors
advisory council. Conor is using his experiences to influence change in the way
Children and young people are seen as victims survivors in their own right. Conor
is preparing to publish his debut children’s book The Shadow That Follows to
support primary prevention initiatives and continue to advocate for standalone
family Violence service for Children and young people. Every day Conor strives to show that lived experience can be
a catalyst for meaningful systemic change. So welcome today to the inspirational trains podcast Conor Pall.
Thanks so much, Josh. It’s a pleasure to be here.
Awesome to have you and glad we could make it happen. As I said a little while down the track.
No, I know it’s good to be finally to finally be on and to chat with you today. Josh,
So as I mentioned at the start there, you know, last time we spoke
a while back you are in Russia and now Melbourne Inner city. Yeah.
Person and Yeah. Tell us
a Bit about the move and how you found it. Yeah. Inner city in Melbourne is pretty similar to Nigeria.
No, not at all. A Bit. Bit different. Josh. It’s been
a crazy move I I Yeah. Last year when I,
when I came to Melbourne obviously from Mildura to accept the award. I could never
have imagined that I’d be living here this time this year. And I think moving here,
so I moved for Uni predominantly. And it’s just been an amazing change. I think it’s been really,
really refreshing to be here and the opportunities that I’ve had since receiving
the award in Melbourne has just just been amazing. So I’m really enjoying it.
Yeah, that’s awesome. So to recap, you did win the Spirit Super connecting communities award for our Victorian yet
achievable arts program. So Congrats to that. Yeah, that’s awesome. I didn’t realise that it wasn’t, you know,
a plan that you’d had.
Yeah. Not at all.
It wasn’t so things just fell into place
really nicely. I think receiving the award has definitely given me a platform and some credibility, I think,
Particularly in the family Violence space. It’s such an adult dominated sector and space like
a lot of other spaces in the professional world. And I think unfortunately,
Children and young people need some credibility sometimes to to be in the space and
to be taken seriously. And I think the award has definitely provided me with some
credibility behind the cause that I’m fighting for.
Well, someone I spoke to recently nakazawa and had
a similar thread in saying that she’s quite young and she looks quite youthful as well. Which, you know, is
a massive challenge to be taken seriously. And when you’re getting on boards and
advisory panels and these things that can be
a challenge. So it sounds like you know that you’ve been now appointed to this
Can you tell us how that came about and what your experience been,
you know, being part of that?
Yeah, it’s been surreal. Josh, I think you know, when I was sixteen, I was writing letters to ministers,
about my experience with the service system and the lack of support that I received as
a young boy experiencing family Violence in my home. And I didn’t really receive
much response from, from ministers and from, from the government and from organisations. And it’s crazy now, you know, three,
four years on I’m twenty and I’m meeting with,
I’m not meeting with advisers anymore. I’m meeting with ministers talking about and
sort of telling them what my experience was and what Children and young people are experiencing now and,
and informing them about what needs to change. And I think it’s my advocacy
in eighteen months. Josh has just changed so much, which is so exciting and it continues to change every day.
Have you mentioned to any of those ministers? Hey, you know, I wrote
a letter a couple. Yeah. To a couple of them I have.
How does it go down?
Not too well,
I think they get to be an awkward and for some of them they weren’t in office when
I wrote those letters, so they can’t really take accountability. But I think it,
it adds to my case that Children and young people aren’t taken seriously in this
space and still really aren’t. And you know, you shouldn’t have to get an award to be taken seriously. That,
that shouldn’t. It shouldn’t have to come down to that,
but unfortunately it sometimes does. But being on the council and being with
a group of other advocates who all have different experiences is just it’s so
refreshing because although our experiences are so different, there’s that there’s the same. I think hope and,
and courage through vulnerability that, that shines through on the council which is just beautiful to be part of.
Yeah, that is good and good on you for standing up and actually saying something to
people face to face. Because I know on a personal level,
I struggle with that. And afterwards, sometimes I walk away from
a conversation that I really should have taken that chance to. You know, it’s not
a sort of bad thing to criticize if it’s coming from a good place and it’s wanting to make
a real change. And so that’s one thing that I think is really impressive that you
took the chance to do that.
Thanks so much and I think it’s worth pointing out though I just, I still walk away thinking, Oh,
I should have said this or I should have framed that in
a different way. And I think that is something that will always happen with my
advocacy. Like it’s, it’s forever changing and evolving, which is scary,
but like it’s a beautiful thing as well.
so, you know, when I read something like you’re part of this, you know,
the victim survivors advisory council and you’re advocating for
a standalone service for Children of young people. Is that something that’s like
a huge mountain or is that something that Oh yeah, we can do that like how to but no,
not being part of it. I don’t really
understand. I think maybe I could maybe set
the sane about what the service currently looks like. So yeah, I, if, when I was sixteen,
I reached out to the scouts leading statewide organization that provides services
to all the victims survivors. But the current system has been designed by and for adult victims,
survivors without really having Children and young people in mind. Yeah.
So my mom,
when she reached out for support, wasn’t, wasn’t ready,
she decided she wasn’t ready. But currently Children and young people can’t reach
out by themselves. They made the adult parent victim survivor to be there and be
receiving support as well. So that’s what the gap is. So my response when I reached
out for help was, are you a perpetrator of the Violence?
And when I said, Oh no, they said, I’ll wait. Sorry,
we don’t provide services or supports to Children and young people who are under
eighteen and don’t have an adult victim survivor parent engaged. And that’s still
the case today. And I think that is something obviously that needs to change. And
when we’re talking about initiatives within schools like respect for relationships,
we’re showing Children and young people and teaching them that Violence is
unacceptable. But then if they disclose that they’re experiencing Violence,
they don’t really have anywhere to go. So that’s what I’m calling for. I’m calling for
a national stand alone service that provides supports to Children and young people as victims in their own right.
Yeah, well the obvious one straight away is if the,
the child or the young Person is experiencing the Violence from their parents. You
know how the heck they’ve had to bring an adult into it so
Particularly if they’re, if they’re experiencing Violence from both parents. Josh, how can they reach out for support?
And there are services that do provide supports to Children and young people in their own right,
but they’re few and far between and they’re not necessarily specialist family
Violence services. And that lends when engaging with Children and young people who
are experiencing family Violence is so important. You need that lens to help them
heal and recover from Violence and the impacts of it because I’m still healing and
recovering from the impacts of my my experiences,
both at the hands of the perpetrator and the system as well. And it’s so important
that we’re given the opportunity to do that healing and recovery in the best way
recovery in the best way that we can
yet for sure. And it’s obviously an ongoing journey and process. Yeah,
So yeah, you can straight away,
you know, you explain that so well as to why that’s required. And obviously that’s
a big change too to bring that in. But something that’s so worth
doing. Yeah. Particularly in again in a space that is so adult dominated and rightly so, because most victims,
survivors we know are adult women. But one in four statistic came out the other
day from the Australian child maltreatment study. And it paints
a picture that one in four Children in Australia have experienced family Violence.
And where are those Children and young people going to get support?
Are they going anywhere like where, where can they go? That? That to
a service that delivers information that’s accessible to them and that they can
connect with. Because I think another thing that I,
that I saying that I call for is making information accessible to Children and
young people doesn’t just benefit us. It benefits everyone,
because the system is complex for even adult victims survivors. So I think accessible information is definitely
a big piece of that puzzle.
I’m realizing I skipped forward a little Bit on some questions. I wanted to ask, I’m going to go back
a little corner if that’s okay. You know, firstly,
how did you become appointed to the survivors advisory council in the first place? So
I, so they advertise positions every two years. So it’s
a two year appointment. And I saw it come up and I was, I was working with
a support worker at the time and he really encouraged me to apply. So I applied.
So it’s after I received the award in twenty twenty two in about July or September,
I think. And I applied not thinking that I would get it like I thought it was a. Yeah, that’s
a chance in hell that I’d actually get in. And
I got in and it was ridiculous. So I
said I had an interview with three of the people at family safety,
Victoria who sort of run the council. So they’re attached to the Department of
Family fairness and housing. And there was the chair was on the interview panel and yeah,
I had the interview and then I found out when I was holidaying in Sydney that I got
appointed and I was just stoked. I was so happy and honoured that that finally a young boy’s perspective could,
could be listened to because I think that’s definitely something that’s missing in
this space. And it’s such an important experience to consider.
Yeah, well that’s true because you can’t just have everyone have the same background age
with all the same viewpoints you need to have that diverse
view. Definitely. Yeah, definitely. I think that’s really good at that. The diversity on the council is
definitely something that I’m proud of because the council needs to be representative of the diversity of lived experience. Otherwise,
it wouldn’t be doing its job.
Yeah. So is it safe to say that you’d be amongst the youngest members of the
gang? Yeah, yeah, so I’m, so I was nineteen,
when I was appointed just just nineteen. And I think the second youngest is about
twenty four, twenty five. So it’s a Bit of a Bit of a gap,
but I hope that there’s a, there’s
a recruitment process currently happening. So I have one more year.
So I hope that
another young Person gets to be appointed because definitely the next stages of the reforms have a have
a clear focus on Children and young people which hasn’t happened before, which is so exciting.
Well, before I ask you, what’s next after this two year period is up,
I want to ask you about how you got into advocacy in the first place. Because,
you know, to me that seems like a really big step to put yourself out there to, you know,
obviously you’ve been dealing with significant experiences and situations. And now
you’re, I guess, sharing part of that too. Obviously to make a big change and
a positive impact. But how does it come about your journey in advocacy?
Yeah. Oh, I think I touched on it briefly before,
but I think I might start at the end and something that I’ve discovered on that I
hate the word journey, but it has been a journey of becoming the advocate that I am today. I think
obviously victims survivors of Family Violence don’t have
a voice for so long and that period of time looks different for each Person. But I
think victims survivors of Family Violence in particular make such good advocates.
Because once we find our voices, we cut through the bullshit and,
and the bureaucracy that, that is the service system. And we,
we bring truth and, and courage to the table, which sometimes, unfortunately, is lacking. Particularly when you’re sitting at
a table of old white generally men in
a government building with White walls and you bring this lived experience that you
have to share. And you can just see the look
on their faces. It cuts through.
But I think moving back, Josh,
I obviously started writing letters to ministers. Didn’t really hear anything and
then I did an internship. I did my like year ten work experience with my local
member Ali cup. Okay. Juror and she took me to parliament,
not sure how many you, ten students are doing that kind of work experience I.
I’m not sure that it was a great experience and like a testament to Ali because she yeah,
she really believed in me which was amazing. But at that point I,
I wouldn’t say I was like, I’d written letters, but I wasn’t out. You know,
I was in year ten. I was,
I wasn’t out saying what this happened to me yet. That wasn’t me. But she knew and
she took me to parliament and I met some of her colleagues,
some other MPs. And then I think she really she role model to me what
advocacy was and what it looked like.
So after that I really knuckle down and
started calling the offices of the ministers that I wrote to and saying, hey,
it’s been ten months Where’s, Where’s the response?
And then I met with and now that my other MP in the upper house of the Victorian
parliament and she asked a constituency question to the attorney general about
a legal matter that was heard in the magistrates court involving an intervention
order. And the magistrate had made this terrible,
terrible ruling that I would be removed from the order when I turned eighteen without my knowledge. And that’s not
a part of what the law says. It doesn’t say
that you have to do that. So he used his discretion, discretionary powers to make that decision,
and she asked the attorney general to,
to reply and say why that occurred and why this occurs because it happens. It’s
happened to other young victim survivors as well. And then I got
a letter from the CEO of the magistrate’s court of Victoria. And he,
he apologised and committed to mandatory training for all judicial officers in
Victoria to make sure that they understand that that shouldn’t happen because we
know that the justice system in the legal system is so retraumatizing to victim
survivors and very rarely provides justice or decisions around fair,
fair treatment for victims survivors. So I think that that letter highlighted to
me that the work that I was doing was working because this,
it’s so often it still happens now I come home to my partner and I used to go home
to my mum and I was having a mujer and I would be like,
why am I doing this work like why,
but Nothing’s happening. No one’s listening. They just, they just want me to go to a meeting,
talk about what happened to me. Then I go home and it’s just all tokenistic. But
when things like that happen and they don’t happen often,
it reminds me that the work is worthwhile because Children and young people
deserve more than that. They don’t deserve to be going to court every month to get
an intervention order extension that’s not viable. They should be doing things that
Children and young people do not going to court. And that’s why I think that’s why
I do the advocacy that I do.
And that’s, it must be frustrating to put in all this effort to not get anywhere but then on
the flip side, the incredible impact that when you do that analogy of
the hits of the knot and it takes, you know, thousands of but that one that makes the crack, yeah.
Everything you’ve done. All the frustration has led to that moment and that
huge impact because that’s huge. What you were talking about with the magistrates
court and committing to training, and that’s such a big change. That’s nothing tokenistic, that’s not an apology, that’s hey,
we messed up, but we’re actually
changing you. Yeah,
it is. It is pretty big and I sometimes forget
how big it is. But I think it’s also
the ripple like conversation like this conversation is creating reports that will
hopefully lead to someone else talking about their experiences or, or standing up and saying, you know what,
I’m actually going through something similar. And it’s not Okay. And I deserve that,
I have the right to feel safe and free. It’s those. Yeah,
those pebbles in the water that create those ripples that really matter as well.
Yeah, so true. Well, something that could create a lot of ripples is the children’s book you’re working on. Yeah,
and I know that only too well with young Children myself,
just starting school and about to start school that the books we read to them as parents, you know,
and carers and things like that have such an impact on them. So tell me about the shadow that follows.
Yeah, I think I’m not,
I’m not an artistic or creative Person at heart. So this has been a big challenge,
but probably one of the best things that I’ve ever done,
and I couldn’t have done it without the support of my partner Jack,
and my beautiful family back home in Mildura. But so yeah,
it’s called this chateau that follows and it’s about me. So it’s about the impacts
of Family Violence on Children and how those impacts follow us everywhere they
follow us. When we go to school, they follow
us when we go to dance class or to, you know,
the soccer club and play soccer on the weekend. They follow us everywhere.
hard thing about the impacts and the shadow,
the hard thing about the shadow is it’s not always visible. You can’t see the shadow,
but I can see the shadow but other people can. And I think something that I’m
really passionate about is primary prevention. And the intersection that has with early intervention and programs like respect for relationships,
I say this book supporting programs like that in schools and getting kids ready,
getting your kids ready to go to school as well. Josh,
them having that knowledge that with the support and love and care from people
around people that that has an impact and that can help stop the shadow from
becoming this big thing that has such an impact on
a child’s life. So I see the book working in partnership, hopefully with initiatives like respect for relationships in schools.
So for anyone who’s listening along and kind of, you know,
not familiar with terms like primary prevention and things like that. Can you give
us a little Bit of a layman’s?
Of course. Yeah, so primary prevention in Victoria and nationally now the government,
all governments have committed to ending Violence in one generation. And part of
that is a program are programs under the primary prevention banner, which aim to prevent Violence from occurring at
a young age and it at school aged Children. So from prep to year twelve. So in Victoria,
there’s respect for relationships and that program is embedded in our curriculum
and aims. Its aim is to support Children to understand what
a healthy relationship looks like. Which is so important because if that’s not being modelled at home,
our Children and young people Understanding that number one, what they’re experiencing is unsafe. And number two,
that if they experience that in a relationship later on in life or are currently experiencing it,
that it’s actually illegal and they can get help. So it’s,
I would say it’s one of the most important elements of,
of the family Violence system is to actually stop family Violence from from starting.
Yeah, that’s really, that’s really powerful. So with the book you mentioned that you had
a lot of support from your partner, Jack and your family and you know,
artistic. Yeah. Tell me about their process of you. Are you the author? Is there another illustrator? Who yeah.
Yeah, so I’m the author, so I wrote the book in a day, but then I was just like,
I’m going to write it. So it’s thirty two pages. So standard children’s book size
and I’m working with or I’ve worked with an illustrator named Emma pleasance. And she’s just understood this,
she understood the story from the Start and we’ve really connected. So we’ve been
working on this for eighteen months and it’s currently available for pre-sale.
the launch is happening. Yeah. On the twenty ninth of, of October. So soon,
and the process has been excruciatingly long.
It’s has that you wrote it in a day and eight months later. It’s still going. Yeah. The
writing part was easy. I think Josh, yeah,
the rest of it’s been so difficult to come up. I knew that I wanted the chateau. I
knew I wanted the book to be done in watercolor,
because I wanted the shadow to bleed through the paper. I wanted it to be this
shapeless figure that yeah, that didn’t really. It doesn’t have a gender,
it doesn’t have like a figure. It’s just this. Yeah, this shapeless shadow that’s really powerful.
I’m it, it,
it makes me really emotional when I say it, because it represents the feeling. It doesn’t represent the perpetrator. It
represents the feeling of that experience,
which I think is really important because it is the feeling that affected me the
most. Just getting the concepts from the,
from the illustrator and working on them and then figuring out how to pull it all
together. Not on canvas, but professional it like how do you pull
a book together professionally and having professional scans done like I thought, you just photocopy the illustrations? No,
you have to go and spend buckets of money getting them the pictures scanned and then
the word placements and all of that. So I’ve been really lucky with the group of
people around me. You know, I obviously have an illustrator. I have
a graphic designer and someone helping me pull the book together that I’m so excited for,
for kids to have it in their hands. And maybe they’re not able to articulate their
feelings before they have the book. But when they have the book, they can say, hey,
this is like I’m feeling this, this is how I’m feeling and having it used as
a therapeutic resource in services would just be amazing.
That is really cool and sounds like a very intense project,
but to be honest for someone who says that they’re not artistic,
you’ve described it so evocatively, and it’s very emotive. And, you know,
to be honest, a little Bit haunting, but in a good way in
a way that it’s going to be powerful.
And I think it’s been hard to strike that balance Josh of something as scary and as haunting as family
Violence. Like family Violence isn’t just physical abuse, it’s, it’s emotional abuse. It’s fun,
it’s all of these different things and pulling that together and representing that in something that
a six or seven year old can understand has been difficult. It’s been really
challenging. But I think, I think, and I hope that we’ve pulled it,
pulled it off and pulled it together really nicely.
So where can people get this book or, you know, you said there’s a presale to sign up.
Yeah, so it’s available on Amazon and on book Topia,
but it’s also on my website. So I think going to my website kind of Polycom would
be the easiest way to have a look and have
a rate of what the book’s about and look at the front cover and see if it’s
something that Yeah, you’ll connect with.
Yeah, kind of Polycom definitely. And your book Topia. It’s great website so yeah,
that’s awesome and can’t wait to check it out myself and have
a look at it and read it to my kids as
well. Definitely. Thanks so much Josh.
So now I did taste it earlier. I wanted to know about what happens next after you know
your role on the advisory council, you’ve got one year left. What are some of your future ambitions?
And what do you see as a, I guess the following years to come? Connor pope
I think something we’ve talked a lot about,
I think today about the journey of, of my advocacy and may as
a Person. And I think something that I’ve really honed in on it,
Particularly in the past six months, is the fact that I’m so much more than
a victim survivor of Family Violence. And I have
a lot more to offer than just that experience. I’m on a pole before I’m
a survivor of Family Violence and I think that’s something that’s really important
when I’m, when I’m doing this work. And when advocates do the work that they do,
it’s so easy to make that your whole identity. But it’s so
important that people remember that advocates and lived experience advisors are so
much more than just that experience that they’re sharing in that moment they’re, they’re
a whole Person. So I’m currently studying social work at rmit and
am working part time at the centre for Excellence in child and family welfare policy. So I really,
really enjoy policy work. So I think the dream for me would be to be in government
working as an advisor or something like that. I think that’s what my future looks like.
Yeah, well you say right about labelling and how we obviously we as people we,
we like to label things that way, but it’s not always a positive thing.
Yeah. And I think it’s, it gets convenient to label Connor Paul Hayes. Yep. He’s the victim survivor of
Family. Violence but don’t think I have one label. I think I’m multiple things.
Definitely. Well, one label that I have for you is an inspirational, Australian,
because I’ve definitely gotten so much out of this chat. And I know that our
listeners will as well before I let you go though I do have two more questions for
you. So the first one is actually
a question from Spirit Super sponsor of this episode. And the funny thing is we
raise the topic of doing these episodes last year. And you know, it’s taken
a while to come to fruition, but they had this question for you back, you know,
when you were freshly announced as a winner. So to see your response, you know,
down the track, but basically the question that they’ve asked is Connor,
what drives you to want to protect and help your community so actively. And you know, we have covered
a little Bit in what we’ve been talking about. But I think the protect pay is
something you probably haven’t talked about as much so. Yeah. So what is it that
it’s driving you to to protect the community?
Yeah, I think I think when I hear that question I hear about what’s my, why,
what’s my reason for doing this work?
And I think I know that it’s my mom and my brother. I think they’re the two people
that are my, they’re my why they’re why I do this work because Particularly my mom has
sacrificed so much for me and modeled to me what a healthy relationship should look like. And that everyone,
no matter who who the Person is,
has the right to feel safe and free. And I think they’re my reason why I do this
work when I, when I come home and I’m like, before I said, Oh, why do I do this work?
And I think of my mom and brother and they’re part of why I do this work.
That’s awesome. Well, you’re so good at answering questions that you kind of already nailed.
question I was going to ask you, which is about, you know,
because I’ve been inspired by you and that’s absolute,
honest reaction to our conversation. And at twenty years old, you know,
you’ve achieved a lot of people need a whole lifetime to do it. And you know,
an author at twenty that’s really cool. So, you know, I’ve been inspired by you and you know,
obviously you’ve just mentioned that your mom and family inspire you as well. But
from a bigger picture, you know, motivations wise,
what is it that inspires you and we’re not talking about labels now?
I’m not talking about as a survivor, just in life like,
what’s your philosophy as opposed to going about your day to day life?
Oh, that’s a big question. That is, I’m not ready to answer that question. What inspires me?
I think Children and young people inspire me. I think I’ve
been doing this work. I’ve come across like yesterday I went to the no to Violence conference, which is
a massive national conference that brings together sector representatives and advocates. And I was on
a panel with four or five other young people. And they inspired
They just the way that they what I think Children and young people in this
generation just wear that we wear our heart on our sleeves and we’re just honest.
And we’re not afraid. And we’re courageous. Like we were on
a panel with the National commissioner for family and domestic Violence and all of
these CEOs, with all these CEOs in the room and everyone,
all of those young people that I was with just said it as a,
as it was. And was there was so raw and so honest and I think that’s,
that’s why I do the work that I do and that that’s my philosophy. Children working
alongside other other advocates and, and collaborating with them.
Yeah, that’s awesome. One, you know, I really dislike stereotypes around young people because of negative and that
really annoys me. But one stereotype that I want people to push,
one thing that I’ve seen around being at events talking to people of, of your age,
you know, kind of mid twenties and under is that I feel like there’s
a lot less It’s not quite tall poppy syndrome, but there’s a lot less like, well if I didn’t win,
then I’m disappointed that there’s so much more supporting peers. I’ve noticed that
at the events when after an award is announced,
the other finalists who weren’t announced as the winner. I just like stoked to see
the people who did win and they celebrate them. They congratulate them.
And that even that happened to me when I got my award,
all of the other nominees like came up to me afterwards and getting photos with me.
And that’s just normal, I think, yeah, in our generation and on stage yesterday,
with the other panelists, there were no egos,
we were all just there as people with experiences. Understanding that all of our
experiences are different. Not one Person is better than the other. And it’s so
special to be part of that. I think you’re right, Josh.
So yeah, that’s one of the trends that I’ve seen.
And I want that to be the stereotype that
people want to talk about with young people. So, you know,
and you’ve obviously reaffirmed that that I said, so thank you for your time, Connor,
I really appreciate it. Just to remind everyone had to quote Apple.com this C O a.r.
PLL icon will put it in the show notes as well. Sign up for that book and follow
what Conn is doing because it’s, it’s great stuff.
Perfect, thanks so much, Josh. Thanks for having me.
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